When You Can’t Agree
I’ve received a lot of questions from people who just can’t seem to get their partners on board when it comes to managing the money. It’s not unusual for people to have different approaches to money. One likes to save, the other likes to spend. One thinks credit is evil, the other thinks credit is there to be used to full advantage. Differences that are even smaller that these diametrically opposed positions can cause friction: witness the couple who both agree they want to buy a house, both agree they’re going to save, and then disagree on where they should keep their savings.
I’m not sure why money has so much emotion attached to it. After all, it’s only meant as a convenience so you don’t have to carry the goat over your shoulder from stall to stall hacking off limbs as you buy your vegis, pay your fuel bill or pick out a snappy new slingshot for Hunter Boy. So why does it matter so much how much we make, what kind of wagon we drive or whether our plough-horse is the latest in breed?
Perhaps it’s because we’ve lost sight of what’s really important. Now we measure ourselves less by our ability to help others through tough times and more by how snappy we look when we head off to church. I think we should have to wear little tags on our stuff that shows what we still owe so that people get the right idea about what we’re willing to sacrifice (peace of mind, hard earned money in interest, our family’s security) just to make an impression.
Well, if money is such a big, hairy deal, then why are some people so willing to ignore it, to their own (and their partner’s) detriment? Why do they throw up their arms and stomp out of the room, yelling over their shoulder, “I don’t care. You do it.”
I’ll tell you why. They’re scared. Yup. They’re petrified. And the very idea of facing up to what’s what with their money makes them just want to toss their cookies. They have no hope. It’s a lost cause. The whole thing isn’t even worth talking about.
So, if you’re the guy trying to get them to pay attention, what do you do?
Some people would tell you to just separate your money and be done with them. Let them sort out their own mess. Me, I think that’s foolhardy. Since their negative behaviour - sticking their heads in the sand and never making a payment - can have serious repercussions for the rest of the family, I’d find another way.
You have to do something to get your partner’s attention. And it has to be something big, or you won’t make an impression. Since humour is the one thing that consistently overcomes fear, then you should also make it something funny.
So image this: you’ve been trying to get your husband to sit down and talk to you about the bills and how you’re going to pay them. He won’t. Your husband arrives home, yelling your name as he comes trumping into the house. You’re sitting in the living room buck-naked. On your right breast is printed “overdraft — $372.34″, on your left breast is printed “credit card payment: $238.” Do you think he’ll laugh? Will he pay attention?
Guys, use your imagination. You can see where I’m going with this. So if it’s the missus that’s been acting like an ostrich, you can just go ahead and write on yourself wherever you think she’ll pay most attention.
You may have to take your prodding public. This is hard, because people are so secretive about their money. But it may be what you need to do to get your partner to heads-up to your frustration, your anger, your sense of desperation.
Whatever outrageous step you take to get your partner’s attention, he might get mad or she might throw a hissy-fit. So you have to warn them ahead of time that if they don’t start bringing some positive attitude to the table, you’re going to get desperate and do something crazy.
Once you do sit down to talk, it’s important to not only talk about what’s important, but why it is important. If your partner wants to take a vacation away from home every year, it may be the travel bug, or it may be a desire to get you away from other distractions. Or he may simply want you all to himself for a while. Is there a less expensive way of achieving his goal?
Pick your discussion time carefully; don’t try to talk when you’re mad. If you’re angry about your buddy’s most recent financial misstep, you’re ripe for a fight. Hold off until you’re calm.
Keep in mind that arguments about money often mask more deep-rooted problems, such as your partner’s sense of value or power within the relationship. There are times when the way in which we do things sends a message our partners may resent. They might be miffed if we:
- seem to spend more money on ourselves or our family/friends than on them
- complain about how much money they spend on themselves
- fail to check to see if they’ve got plans for the bank balance before we spend the spare cash
- question them on every penny they spend.
If one of you thinks the other has an unfair advantage - perhaps one person makes considerably more, or constantly buys expensive presents that make the other feel they have to keep up - resentments can build.
As you discuss your money and start working together on your financial future, agree that money management is a joint responsibility. No one person should have to bear all the responsibility. And the other guy shouldn’t be in the dark about what’s happening with the family coffers. Agree to talk. Talk. Talk. Talk. Talk. Talk. There’s no better way to work it out. And if your partner doesn’t hear you the first time you say something, say it again. Write it on the bathroom mirror in toothpaste. Write it on your stomach in chocolate sauce.
Remember that life and relationships are all about negotiation. Learn to give so you can get. And make sure you get when you give.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Haha, I totally agree about the little tags that say what is owed and what was given up! Just this weekend my boyfriend and I were talking about how we used to think people had things we didn’t because they could afford them, when in reality, most of it was probably charged. (And we would way rather be without the stuff & the debt than walking around with that financial burden.)
I love walking around with the realization that just because someone has something, doesn’t mean they have/had the money for it.
Thanks for another thought-provoking blog, Gail!
April 7th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Gail, you have something on your mind! Do you think a bottle of chocolate paint is enough for doing the monthly budget review? Columns and figures all over the place! LOL.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
I have to agree with Kelly! My husband and I often find ourselves saying ‘how it is that so and so can have this even though we have better jobs?’ It would definately be interesting to see how much everyone was carrying around with them in the way of consumer debt! If we all had to have tags saying how much we owed people would be much less frivolous and in your face with their purchases thats for sure! Heck it might even go as far as to make the whole world better! But we all know that won’t happen. I just silently take pride in the fact that I have no consumer debt and actually own all of my posessions.
And as usual Gail is right about everything! Talking about money is definately something every coupld should do! I actually know a couple who have no idea where any of their money goes because neither of them look at who is spending what. How they manage to pay any bills is beyond me. But I just find that amazing! How can you be married to someone and not know where they spend their pay cheques?! Baffles my mind really!
April 7th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Gail, I don’t think this problem exists only between partners. I can see it exists between family members from different generations. My mom thinks that I should spend more. I’m pretty sure that it’s because she wants to have something to “show off” in front of her peers. Likewise, I want her to be more sensible of her spending. It’s because I’m not prepared to pay her bills should my parents’ retirement saving runs out. Those deep-root problems are very difficult to deal with, because it’s an issue that could make both parties very angry.
April 8th, 2008 at 7:59 am
One article in a freebie “newspaper” is that Canadians are keeping the economy from tanking like the US…the reason…spending. A recession is looming no doubt about it and us Canucks aren’t willing to accept it. My fiancee had a slip yesterday, bought a pair of wedges (I still don’t know what that is), and a couple of tops. I think what I might have to do to shock her is put in a perspective she can understand, take the wedges and place a sticky note on it with the following:
$15 = a pack of diapers (price of the shoes that she allegedly paid and something that she is looking forward too - children)
or the whole purchase yesterday
$55 = Thank you cards for our wedding
I think putting saving or debt reduction is a matter of putting it into “tangible perspective” is the key for both genders. Sure that little purchase here and there won’t break the bank, but as Gail always demonstrates on ‘TDDUP, it adds up.
I know that this may not be the forum to do so, but, seeing as there are avid readers on Gail’s blog…why not start up a support group that we can share our stories, give hints and ideas, start challenges for each other, etc. Anyone game?
April 8th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Elvin, you need to keep in mind that borrowing money in Canada is vastly different than borrowing in the US. I’m sure our spending is a contributing factor when talking about the supposed recession, but there are many other factors to take into account such as the war they are funding and that entire sub-prime mortgage thing that happened. (On a side note, seriously who thought that sub-prime mortgages where a good idea?! I guess that person is laughing all the way to the bank while everyone else is left scrambling!) So I’m sure we are avoiding a recession not just because of our spending, although it does seem it is largely due to that.
I do agree though, that looking at things in terms of what the money could be used for in the future is a good way to curb spending but everyone should be allowed the occasional ’slip.’ No one is perfect, and sticking to a strict budget can be difficult. My husband and I each have so much money each month (it isn’t a lot) that we get to do whatever we want with. In a sense it is our allowance. Often we just choose to save it, but its nice to be able to go out and splurge on something every once in a while and not affect the budget.
I’m game for the ’support group.’
April 8th, 2008 at 10:17 am
It’s interesting that Gail’s blog has basically become a forum for frugal living. This has come out of the people who read it more than from Gail herself. Gail has said she doesn’t care what people choose to spend their money on, as long as they can afford it. I guess what this says is that probably very few of us can actually afford the lifestyle our society has come to accept as the norm. What does that say about us and our values?
April 8th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I think about that often Lisa! Its sad that it seems like today you are defined by who you wear, what you drive and where you live. But at the end of the day all that really matters is if you are a good person or not. Our society seems to miss that now. It is sad when you really think about it.
April 8th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Kathryn, I would argue that our economy is tied so heavily to that in the US which will result in a recession on our soils as well. We may not have the problems the Americans are facing (sub-prime, war spending, etc); however, the fact is, decreased exports to our number 1 trading partner will significantly damage our economy. We will have a recession, but not as deep and not as long as the US…a micro recession if you will. Our commodities are propping our lagging manufacturing sector and if there is no one to buy our wheat, wood, oil, etc, how will our economy not suffer.
As for my fiancee’s slip…I agree…we each should have a set amount to spend each month…but when is enough stuff enough? We’re having a yard sale this Spring just to get rid of the old stuff we’ve accumulated, but it makes no sense to keep buying then selling…then you’re just in neutral….Splurging on things that have value, I mean true value is better than wasting cash on something that is not really needed. For instance, if you value spending quality time with your significant other….then, would it not make more sense to save up and go away to a romantic b&b….or does shoes envoke romance for the both of you. Aligning common values and goals is the first step to a successful relationship and financial future.
Back to the topic at hand though….ignoring finances leads to ruin….gentle reminders to your significant other or even yourself works best in my estimation. Cut out a photo of that romantic getaway you want to go on, your kids, that pair of Steve Maddens or LCD TV and stick it on your bathroom mirror or fridge, carry it in your wallet or attach it to your credit card. It will make you think twice about spending frivously on things that don’t matter. After all, it’s not what you own that defines you as a person or couple!
April 8th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I’m all for the support group.
It is really really hard to save up for something when you could just go and buy it. I’m not frugal, not at all, and my solution is to just not go shopping. I can’t budget either. My solution to that is to have the money automatically go into the savings account.
As a family we’ve just made a choice that is better for the kids but will dramatically reduce our disposable income. How do you keep the same friends when you don’t have the same money?
April 8th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Chloe, if they are really good friends you won’t lose them when your financial situation changes……. If you have to say no to something that is too expensive why not say something like ‘hey guys, next time why don’t we do this [insert creative low cost option here]‘ and I’m sure everyone will be all for it. It is often the things that cost the most that are the easiest to fall back on, but if you just do some extra planning and thinking there are a ton of low cost, heck even a ton of free things to do with friends!
My friends and I all have very different economic pictures and that doesn’t stop us from seeing each other! Money should never ever ever get in the way of friendships! People are more important than money!
April 8th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
good friends you’ll keep, but anchors you’ll drop. people who aren’t supportive of you bettering yourself and putting yourself where you want to be are access baggage. harsh but true. good friends (rich or poor) will be on the sidelines cheering you on.
for those who have yet to marry or join finances, talk a lot about these things, specifics and all, before getting married. most people don’t.
my husband and i are perfectly inline with money and our views on such things. rare but possible. we are very like minded on money and spending issues. it is one strain we will never have. but we knew that going in because we always spoke very openly about stuff like that. everything is joint, minus our personal accounts, which have a small amount of money deposited each month for individual fun and splurges (wedges, lattes with the girls and what not :0) ).
keeping everything joint keeps us making the decisions together, with neither having their head in the sand.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
I’ll admit that it is very important to me to have someone on the same wavelength (otherwise I would have kept my own place), so we don’t worry about each other’s spending.
As for how/when to spend:
if you are paying off your debt as per schedule, not adding consumer debt, and putting away into savings, the rest is meant to be spent and who cares on what!
I tend to be surprised by the ‘huge’ amount Gail allows for ‘entertainment’; I certainly don’t put that much! When I first set up my budget after schooling was done, I decided to put money towards travelling (not high end), so although I don’t spend on weekly entertainment, I allow myself one trip per year. It fits the budget (and the travelling expenses are selected carefully), it fits the couple’s choice, so I feel like I am spurgling, but it is ok.
April 12th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I have been enjoying Gail’s site for a few months . especially , the forums(?) the variety of people & diversity of ideas encourage me , entertain , sustain & open my eyes to so much . unlike most comments spaces-NO BITCHING-(!?) that makes it so pleasant to come here & get my ass kicked for what I’m doing /not doing financially
I love the humor suggestion. wish I’d thought of it sooner- I have 2 places he’d have read ; ) my sweetie + I are in the percentage of break-ups over finances. & we don’t owe ,excepting car lease ,rent, phone, +computer line. so sad . :’ ( but ,……. he was happy with his ways before me , he’ll be fine. I’ll be fine. at least no kids, no debt . whew!
April 13th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Elvin:
If you know you want to have a baby with her eventually, why not start a baby jar now? It can help for many things: baby stuff, maternity clothing, reduced income, babysitter, etc.
If people wait until they have a child to make budget changes, it will be MANY changes once the baby is out! People get used to a lifestyle, free time, greater disposable income, etc. Kids do change lifes!
April 26th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Hello Gail,
I am writing to you regarding an issue that I’m going through. My boyfriend and I were nearly engaged when things broke down, and it was because of…money. At least, that’s what it looks like. We’re Muslim, and in Islam, a guy provides a dowry to the girl, and is supposed to provide for her. However, I am more than willing to share the responsibility of finances. My boyfriend (or ex?) and I are both graduate students, and were planning to get married. Since I know we are not financially ready to get married yet, I suggested we wait till we are. However, he refuses to do so. We discussed this issue over 2 weeks, and fought, and in the long run…we decided to call things off and break up. However, deep inside, we both still love each other and want this to work out. I was wondering if there’s any way this can be salvaged, by getting some professional advice as to how we can manage our finances and plan to get married, while still being graduate students. He’s very stubborn, and I think you are someone who could get to him, with regards to the whole financial aspect of this problem.
Thanks!
May 15th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
We are a couple who I want to save and pay off our credit card debt as soon as possible and nd my husband doesn’t think it is all that important to have the dept paid off right away. We we have to pay interest, which adds up and have to save for our wedding next year, a down payment on another vehicle in two years after our lease is up, and money for emergencies. Everytime I bring up the money subject he says I don’t want to talk about it, even if I brough it up in humor I don’t think he would want to hear it. I guess because he see it as me nagging him. I want him to be involved in the budgeting I have showed him in the past but it doesn’t stop him from spending. He is not a big spender he just likes his beer and smokes, sure some beer is fine but smokes is even more of a waste. So I just keep my mouth shut and go about the bills, budgeting, debt repayment myself as best I can. And when we are low on spending cash he wonders why. Anyone have any suggestions? Help!
May 15th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Call the wedding off until he comes to his senses!
May 15th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
What do they say on those Slice commercials? “Don’t try to change him, ex-change him!”
May 16th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Sar, I would go out for a coffee in a cafe, invite him to a coffee, your treat, choose a quiet day, when you are both relaxed and have time on your hands, give him NO indication of what you are going to be talking about - because no one wants to make a scene with anyone when they are outside of the home - get your coffees, sit down in a quiet corner and tell him this - I love you very much, what I am about to tell you is very important to me, so I need your full attention and understanding… and go on to explain to him that you want to work as a team to secure your future and be able to share with him and get idieas from him about everything , including money, so that when you both grow old together, you will be happy and rich, not misreable and poor and the planning starts now, today.
And tell him that if he is not willing to commit to working as a team in all areas, then the wedding is off and you have to go your seperate ways. And you will give him until the next day to decide and tell you his decision.
If he interrupts you, calmly tell him that you are explaining something that is very important to you, and when you have finished speaking, you will give him a chance to respond. And when he is talking, don’t interrupt him, let him finish and then you go ahead and speak. Tell him how you feel, tell him everything Sar.
I had to use this stratagy with my husband - he has a short fuse and a short memory - so I have coffee breaks often - these are reminder breaks for both of us.
I hope this helps Sar - if not, I’d be calling off the wedding personally, and be serious about it, wedding off, means wedding off. Thanks.
May 16th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
To S & H: Yes, if money is not plenty by the time the wedding arrives we may have to postpone unless I can even be more frugal with the planning that I am already going to be or get more help from our parents and H, lol, it is not that bad for me to exchange, I love him dearly, and I know this is something he will eventually come to see it is just how.
May 16th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
NKM - Thanks for that, that is a great idea to sit down calmly with him and let him talk also (I do tend to interrupt him). I did bring up the subject again lastnight, and I did get my point across in a calm manner and he of course even said we have completely different outlooks, and he said I don’t want to talk about it, but he did hear me and he knows what I am concerned about. Also, that is a good point to bring up, we need to do this to live a rich and happy future. It is not that bad that I would leave him, it just that extra $40 here $60 there, it makes a big difference, I would just rather have that extra $ go towards debt/savings.
Thanks everyone for your adivce, it is much appreciated!
May 16th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Ruba - I am muslim too, but I am by no means a scholar of Islam. You are wise to wait to get married until you are financially stable - however, the question is - will you ever be financially stable enough?
I am not sure about the dowry part - I certainly did not get one - but you must under Islamic law, have a prenup before you get married - Islam protects the woman should you get divorced, you are protected.
Yes, the husband may gift his wife anything he wishes on the wedding day. and yes, he has to provide for you and the up keep of the house, but remember he has no right on your finances or property or assets unless you wish so.
In my case, I was more than willing to pool my finances but then I had known my husband for a very long time before we got married and have been married now for 18 years. Together we have worked very hard to achive the financial freedom that we enjoy and it can be done, but it takes both people to do it hand in hand. It was not easy, he had different ideas to myself, but we worked at it.
Personally I would wait and see how things work out. I would tell you the same thing that I told Sar - invite him for a coffee in a public place and then talk camly. See what happens.
All the best to you and to Sar, keep working at it and if the guy is a good, honest, kind and respectful person to you and those around you, it will all be well in the end. Thanks.